hello, I'm new

[anneneedsmorecowbell]

Hi, I'm new here. I am from Minnesota and just got 9 chicks yesterday. I got 3 araucana, 3 barred rock, and 3 rhode island reds. As a little kid we had chickens, but I haven't had any in like 20 yrs. My husband and I are hopefully going to have good luck.
Anyways, my first question is:
As a kid my folks had medicated feed and vitamins in the water because one year all the chickens got some rubber legged disease. Anyone know what that was? At the store a lady said not to use medicated feed, and only use vitamins if they are sick. Any advice? I don't want to overmedicate or medicate "just because" but I don't want to put them at risk just because I want them to be as organic as possible. Thanks in advance!

[JamesC]

anneneedsmorecowbell:
Welcome, some people don't believe in supplying medicated chick starter.....I do! The medication in starter is a coccidiostat that will help the chicks to build an immunity to coccidiosis and should be fed for the first 8 weeks - you can go longer but I think 12 weeks would be the outside limit, after that they should have built their immunity.

I start my chicks on a supplement sold by Murray McMurray Hatchery called Quick Chick. It's an electolyte/vitamin mixture that is added daily to fresh water for the first 3 weeks. It gives them a great start. Any poultry vitamin mix will do however.

The "rubber band leg" problem I believe is rickets caused by a shortage of Vitamin D. But I think there is also a problem caused by a shortage of Potassium which causes problems in movement.

I'm glad that you didn't just take those words of advise from the lady at the feedstore. It's always better to get different opinions to make an informed decision. Whether or not you feed medicated starter and vitamins is your decision, but at least you know what they are for and what the risks are.

James

[RonL]

Hi, Ann. Welcome to Poultry One :)

You received excellent advise from James .... our E F Hutton .... When he speaks, everyone listens :wink:

Keep us informed on your birds. Hope to see you around often .......

[anneneedsmorecowbell]

Thanks for the advice. I did buy unmedicated feed, but I'll stop and get a vitamin for the water tomorrow so I at least have that. I think we lost one chick. One of the araucanas wasn't moving a lot when I did chores. I feel bad, but who knows, maybe it was just a weaker one. I'd be more concerned but the others are all running around peeping, eating, and drinking like crazy. I'm sure I'll have lots more questions as time goes on!

[sail2617]

Hi and welcome to PoultryOne,

I respectfully agree with James' advice on most things chicken, but....... If your birds were vaccinated for coccidiostat at the hatchery, then, as I understand it, medicated feed will nullify that vaccination. So, I would check to see if they were vaccinated before giving medicated feed.
Just my 2 cents.

Peace,
Sail

[anneneedsmorecowbell]

I called the farm & fleet and they said that they aren't vaccinated against anything. I didn't think to ask if they had the vaccinations there.....is that something most places carry? Before yesterday, I didn't even know that you could vaccinate a chicken. Is it something I can do? Is it spendy? When do you vaccinate? Do you vax meat birds then too?

[JamesC]

anneneesmorecowbell"
There are two vaccinations given at commercial hatcheries if the purchaser requests them and is willing to pay for them. Mareks vaccine has been given for many years and must be administered as soon as the chicks come out of the incubator. It doesn't help if it's given after the first day. A vaccine for Coccidiosis has been available for only a few years. I have to be honest and say that when I gave you that advise it didn't occur to me that they might have been vaccinated for coccidiosis, most people don't yet.

sail:
I'm not aware that feeding a medicated starter to chicks that have been vaccinated for coccidiosis will nullify the vaccination. I'm going to research that one to determine whether or not it does. Good thinking.

James

[sail2617]

Hi James,
When I ordered my chicks from Murray McMurray last year I had them vaccinated and that is the info they gave me. So.... I started with unmedicated feed and a vitamin supplement and all went very well.

Peace,
Sail

[mpmace]

I fed my chicks the medicated feed and I didn't lose a single one. I have about 40 and they are doing fine and look good.

Paul

[JamesC]

sail:

Below is info I found during a search. It confirms what you said, not that I doubted you but I always like to confirm important things first hand.
It seems that the Coccidiosis vaccine contains live oocysts (coccidia eggs) that act like any other vaccine in that at low numbers it stimulates the chicks' systems to develop resistance. The coccidiostats in our Medicated Feeds would be harmful to the oocysts in the vaccine so the chicks would be left without benefit from the vaccine, however they would still have the benefit of the medication in the feed. The assumption would be that you would not want to spend money on a vaccine and then cancel it out with medication.

Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

James

Coccidiosis vaccines - Chicken
FOR VETERINARY USE ONLY

Coccivac®-B
Coccivac®-B Coccidosis vaccine -- Eimeria acervulina, E. mivati,
E. maxima, E. tenella -- Live Oocysts, Chicken Isolates


Indications
For vaccination of healthy chickens at one day of age or older as an aid in preventing performance losses or mortality due to coccidiosis.

Features and Benefits

Controlled dose stimulates immune response
Approved for administration via spray cabinet or eye spray at one day of age
May be administered orally on the feed to chickens one to three days of age
Vaccine oocysts are highly sensitive to anticoccidial drugs
Early vaccination stimulates immunity without adverse impact on flock performance
Rigorous Quality Control assures that Coccivac-B is free of contaminants such as Salmonella spp.
No additional information available

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Coccivac®-D
Coccivac®-D Coccidiosis vaccine -- live oocysts


Indications
For vaccination of healthy breeders and layers as an aid in preventing coccidiosis.

No additional information available

[RonL]

This is an excellent thread with good information stimulated by many inputs :)

[Pigsticker]

I also feed my chicks medicated feed from the start. I don't have the years exspeirence some of these have but I still have only lost 1 chick from 144 total to natural causes.
I also feed my ducklings medicated feed although it is not recomended, they seem to do fine on it.
Read the labels to make sure for all types of medication of any kind, water or feed. Some nullify eachother or vaccines that they may have been given.
Like they say James is pretty much our exspert but even a few of us get lucky and give a good answer every now and then. And some people (like me) get really lucky with their ideas/choises they make.
But now I am off to be at my youngest boys birth. In about 3 1/2- 4 hrs I'll be Dad to number 5. Good luck.

[RonL]

Hey.... Wish you all well :D

[JamesC]

Pigsticker:

I hope all goes well with the birth of the little one - all the best to you and your wife.

I think it's interesting that you say the duckings are doing well on medicated starter. I don't have much experience raising ducks but have always "heard" that medicated starter will kill them. Please let us know how things go with them. That's another of the hear-say beliefs I'll attempt to confirm. I just referred to my "Call Duck Breed Book" by Darrel Sheraw but he doesn't mention that issue under "Nutritional Problems" nor "Ailments".

James

[JamesC]

I did some research this morning regarding ducklings and medicated chick starter. First I want to state that I don't recommend it. If you can get unmedicated starter it's better than giving a medication to birds that don't need it.
The statement that I came across most often was that it's bad to feed ducklings medicated chick starter. No one stated why. One person stated that ducklings eat more "they're voracious eaters" and will over-dose on the medication that is correctly proportioned for chicks.

The link below is the result of a study in which medicated starter was fed to ducklings.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=6878147&dopt=Abstract

Any comments from those who have first hand knowledge?

James