Question about Chicken diseases and innoculations

[chickenplucker]

Have done research on mareks and see that in the 1970's hatcheries began using on regular basis. I understand the logic of hatcheries giving the shot while in the egg. Why on earth has there not been a method to give to chickens in water instead of individual innoculations. I have been advised by some to innoculate for fowl pox because of living south east usa. I was under the presumption that fowl pox was similiar to human measles as it goes thru the flock and then there is immunity for life. I dont suppose this would include offspring which would defy logic. Ok, someone with some opinions, thanks in advance Plucker burning the midnight oil......

[hour3suns]

Well...if it's opinions you want you'll get plenty here. Nothing like opening up that can of worms so early on a Saturday morning when most of us are home catching up on our P1 reading.

No, a chick isn't immune to Fowl Pox because it's parent(s) got it. The chicks that are due to come out of the incubator are going to get themselves a pox vaccine at roughly 6 weeks of age. It can be given earlier, but then you may need to redo the vaccine when they're older anyway. I figure they won't be exposed to the others until they are older than 6 weeks anyway so I'll wait on that one.

As for Marek's, as soon as my chicks hit the non-incubated air their first experience will be a Marek's shot. Why take any chances with something that has the potential to wipe out my whole flock. When ordering from a hatchery request that it is done. I found out in my novice experience of ordering from Mt. Healthy (wonderful to work with by the way) that the vaccine is an "extra" and you have to request it. Don't assume that it's automatically given. Check it out to make sure.

Some vaccines can be given in several different ways, like Laryngotracheitis. If I remember reading correctly on that one it can be given via an eye drop, water, or nasal passage.

Back to Mareks...I was appauled at the waste I have to endure with that one. Both that and many others are by the 1,000 doses and have a smaller vial that has to be mixed into another one. The vaccine is good only for a short period of time after mixing and then has to be disposed of properly. I don't have 1,000 birds and don't plan to have that many ever - gets me into more state regulations. I will only be using maybe 20 or so doses out of the vial and then will be wasting the rest. After thinking about the waste I came to the conclusion that the small vial that must be mixed into the larger bottle is at it's lowest strength for mixing effectiveness. Could be wrong there, but that's my strawberry blonde way of thinking. I'd like to see a smaller dosage available, but I'm not sure if that would be possible for the vaccine company to produce being as the one vial is already so small as it is. Would be nice if they came up with a solution though. I hate all the waste, not to mention the money I will be throwing away due to a large portion of unused vaccine.
Either way, my birds will be vaccinated for what they need.

As for wondering what vaccines you may need, check with your local extension office. They will be able to tell you if there are any prevalent diseases in the area you will want to vaccinate against. Afterwards whatever else you vaccinate against is for your own peace of mind. Also, if you are planning on showing birds you will want to ask if there is anything you need to do for that. For example, my kids are going to show fancy poultry this year at the fair through 4-H. They need to have their chickens tested for Pullorum beforehand or they can't be shown.

If you are bringing birds home from auction you may want to ask if they had any innoculations against anything. More than likely I'm guessing they haven't, but it never hurts to ask. Also, if on the off chance you take birds to auction and find yourself bringing some back you have to remember they have been exposed to other poultry so they may be bringing back someone else's nasties. That means you are exposing your flock to everyone elses potential junk whether they've actually taken the trip or not. It's always better to be safe than sorry.

Smiling & Waving,
Sharon

[chickenplucker]

Sharon, sorry for this so early in the morning but my morning started at 10 pm last night and will just tough it out through today. I dont want to swear to this, but think i inquired about mareks to the women with the buffs, coo coos etc. and I do believe she stated that had never had incidence in any of her flocks. I will ask the extension agent about incidences of mareks in the county in past so many years as well as fowl pox. Still not clear on that one if what I understand about it mimicing human measles is true. Everything I've read states non-fatal minor problem. Plucks

[JamesC]

chickenplucker:
A couple of comments.
Parent birds, that have either built an immumity to a disease or have been vaccinated against it will pass a temporary degree of protection along to their chicks. That's why some vaccinations are timed for certain ages. As hour3suns advised, she has to vaccinate her chicks at 6 weeks for Fowl Pox. By that time whatever protection they had is gone and to be fully protected as they grow a vaccination is needed.

Mareks is different and is most times a killer because of the affect it has on the birds. It's "endemic" which means it's everywhere in the environment so protection is vital as soon after hatching as possible. Having said that, some birds/breeds, or strains of breeds, are more suseptible to Mareks than others. Unfortunately you don't always know if your birds carry a natural immunity and once the disease hits, it's too late to act. The supplier you were talking to you likely knows that her birds have never come down with Mareks, that's a good thing to know. My own experience has been mixed. I've never had it in my Cornish but when I raised Leghorns years ago they contracted Mareks and I lost all of them. The other breeds that people talk about, at least in this area, that are suseptible are Polish and Silkies. I'm sure there are many more.
Some breeders have a program of "breeding for resisitance". That means their birds are exposed to diseases naturally and any that come down with the disease are destroyed. The danger is that you can lose most, if not all of your flock in the process. It takes years and a lot of birds to build that kind of flock but to some people it's the only way to go. I don't know whether it's even possible for some diseases.

James

[astevens4]

hey pluckster - the other comment i'll make is re the science - Mareks is a virus and therefore any antibiotic or anti-microbial agent (the type you use by dissolving in water) would be useless - virus vaccines need to be administered direct into the bird - most bacteria can survive outside the host temporarily - viruses cant, hence the need to be given straight away.
Mareks is endemic - meaning it can live in MANY species of birds - so any wild bird (including migratory ones) can pass the disease - and as James said - the first thing you know BAM your entire flock can be wiped.

Better to be safe than sorry i say plucks!!

Tony

[cgmccary]

On fowl pox:

I noticed the pox on a bird here or there in summer with all the mosquitos around. It was never life threatening or anything but I believe it can decrease egg production. I vaccinated all my birds even though I realized those birds who'd contracted it were immune thereafter, I had not kept up with which ones had it or not. I plan to vaccinate early & then give a booster. It is given by "wing web."

Laryngo: it is a common ailment and there always seems to be lots of respiratory in the chicken world, I figure this is one more to guard against-- there are two types of this vaccine (a tissue derived one & an embryo derived one)-- I believe the tissue derived one (the slightly more expensive one) is the safer one and there isn't any danger of your flock becoming a "carrier flock" whereas the "embryo derived" Laryngo vaccine may make your flock a "carrier flock" for the disease-- you must vaccinate all birds and not let them around any other chickens, I think, for 6 weeks, so they don't transmit it to unvaccinated birds (this has to be done even with the safer tissue derived Laryngo vaccine)-- it is most effective given "occular" (i.e. by drop in the eye and make sure the bird then swallows) & follow-up with a booster 6 weeks later.

Marek's: plenty has been said about Marek's on past threads here; my breed is NOT prone to getting Marek's (other breeders tell me that other breeds in their flocks have gotten Marek's but not one of their Buckeyes have showed symptoms & succumbed to it)-- I am planning on vaccinating this year's chicks just for peace of mind anyway & already have the vaccine waiting-- I am going to inject in the skin of the thigh though instead of the skin of neck.

Just my two cents-- anyone correct me if I erred cause this is off the top of my head.

[midgie1007]

I need to buy a batch of marek's vaccine...any resource recommendations? Also, I have some chicks (about 2 weeks old now) that I didn't vaccinate...can I do them now, or is it too late?

Thanks!
Maggie

[hour3suns]

cg, why the change in where it's injected? Asking because I'm going to be doing my first Marek's vaccinations any day now.

As for Fowl Pox, there are 2 different vaccines out there. The Fowl Pox vaccine that can be given shortly after hatch, but also the drug company information states they may need to be vaccinated again. To me that means you might as well re-vaccinate because "may" doesn't really give me reassurance. The other Fowl Pox vaccine (Poxine) is to be given to older chickens at least 6 weeks of age and turkeys 8 weeks or older. Both are administered through the wing webbing.

After all of our chickens came down with Fowl Pox this past summer I decided to vaccinate against it. I know there's not supposed to be any substantial health risk, but there's also no need for me to pass it on to all the other chickens that come through here as if memory serves when the black pox flake off the effects of the Pox can still hang around for a long time. Our children are going to start showing fancy chickens at the fair this year through 4-H. Might as well make sure they are looking and feeling their best, not sporting a black mess on their heads for a long time. Also, no telling how others take care of their poultry.

Smiling & Waving,
Sharon

[chickenplucker]

Had long discussion with breeder who by the sound of things mainly sells fertile eggs online. I asked them about mareks and fowl pox meds. They told me that if you have a flock of birds who have been innoculated with mareks vaccine that if you introduce another bird to the flock who has not been vacinated that the bird would in all likelihood get mareks because the injection is actually a live virus. Seemed pretty serious about their claim. Anyone care to dispute these findings. According to steve of S & S poultry the information is listed somewhere in Mississippi state university poultry or agriculture listings. Got the pluckers mind racing to be sure. Also contacted local auctioner to check on what if any vaccinations are required to bring birds to auction. His reply that none are required but some of his staff are on the look out for sickly looking birds and have them removed from the premises. Steve of S & S stated that he kept birds that did not sell at auction in isolation for a time after returning to his farm. Let the beatings begin, the pot stirrer has returned lol. plucker

[JamesC]

chickenplucker:
It's a widely held myth that birds vaccinated for Mareks will pass the disease along to unvaccinated birds. That is not the case.
Mareks vaccine is produced with a Turkey Herpes virus, that's used because it stimulates the chickens' immune systems to produce antibodies to Mareks. Chickens don't get Turkey Herpes so that's a no brainer.
However since the vaccine can't produce a positive case of Mareks in the birds, they can't pass Mareks on to unvaccinated birds. All that will happen is your vaccinated chickens will be protected.
Keep in mind that it's always possible to have a "slip", so don't be alarmed if one of your vaccinated birds comes down with. The others won't so losses will be limited.

James